Drunk salvation

So I go to Wal-Mart a few weeks ago....I hate Wal-mart, I really do. But I had to have tylenol for the baby and what else is open at midnight? So while I was there I grabbed up a few other things, gatorade, crackers, etc. I made sure to keep it below 20 and slid into the 20 items or less checkout, grateful one was still open.

Now on the through the parking lot I noticed a shit ton of cops. I mean, like they all had a meeting or something. The cashier is a woman I've spoken with frequently and jokingly I asked "What'd y'all do? Install a donut shop where the McDonald's use to be?" She asked "why?" and I commented on all the cops outside. Now, note I am actually the second in line, as she was currently checking out a six pack of Michelob. I didn't look at the person in front of me, except to note that a person was there. The folks in the 20 items or less are transient. I doubt life long bonds form from those meetings even occasionally. If we weren't in a hurry, we'd not be in the 20 items or less line...

However, this person declares "Y'know why thar thar?" Now, note I do speak redneck, as I grew up one, as you've all surely noticed my frequent use of "y'all" and "ain't". I turn my attention to see this man listing in front of me, eyes glazed, and see an opportunity for entertainment. Please folks, think twice..don't ignore my error...

"And why is that?" "Thar thar to make thar peace with God." Immediately, I stifled a moan and felt regret. I also pictured either a holy descension or a shoot out. Generally "making peace" suggests a last minute regret that spans the course of your life, where you realize you're about to die and realize that all those things you were going to make up for? Yeah, that time has passed.

I settled for an "Uh-huh" and scooted forward as it was my turn and he was done. He stepped back and said "Have you? Will you be duhlivered from Satan?" Yes, DUHlivered, I'm not making this shit up. In my defense, I was tired. "I don't believe in Satan". "Well you beeve in God right?" Yes, beeve..if you hadn't noticed, he was drunk. "If I don't believe in satan, one would find it hard to believe I'd buy God." "Young lady, you need to hear the word of God." At which point I realize, not only am I embarking upon a debate about god with a "christian", and not only am I doing so with a DRUNK "christian", but I'm fixing to be testified to and offered salavation from a drunk "christian" and it was my own damn fault. I looked desperately to see if she was done, and she must have saw a pleading look in my eye as she said "Hey, this is my job, it's not professional for me to discuss." Way to copout.....to give her credit though, she moved faster.

To forestall further conversation I hoped to surprise him into stupidity, "Have you read Darwin's theory on religious fanatisism and the irony inherent in the christian belief system?" Please also note, in order to stupify, they must be able to basically understand what you're saying, even if you are talking out of your ass. It only worked on the cashier. I paid her quickly and edged past the man with "I'm a Pagan". That worked. By the time he collected his wits I was to the metal thingy-ma-jig and by the time he made it that far I was in the crosswalk.

While the meeting itself may not normally be blog worthy, it brings to mind all kinds of things. It's like Jimmy Stewart duhlivering a sermon against adultery while in the throws of his own ejaculation with his prostitute. Really?

It's no shock to me that many christians frequently sin while telling you YOU are the one going to hell. However, it's rare to encounter who actually does it WHILE in the act of sinning. Not to mention with NO consideration of others. Really? You're going to give me shit about not believing in god and I know you're drunk and fixing to drive home. (Yes, I DID stop the security and tell them if they didn't want sued perhaps it was a good idea to go do something about the drunk standing in the middle of the parking lot looking for me..I don't need god to make me do something responsible). Not to mention, is god really worried about MY salvation? I mean, you may be 10 minutes away from killing yourself or others....I would hope he has at least ONE thing bigger than me on his mind. Like the fact that maybe you are fixing to commit murder and/or suicide. And don't give me that shit about god's mind being infinite and being able to encompass many concerns. If you want to go there, perhaps he could do something about those starving children and dying mothers on the other side of the world.

Which brings me to another question: If he can't intervene on behalf of all those other evils that abound in the world....why the fuck would he intervene for my salvation, and half ass it with a drunk no less?

*fires off the second shot*

You know, it's hilarous how the "season of peace" has spawned a war...

Let's bring in dear Senator Buttars...poor Buttars doesn't have enough to do with his day. Apparently ignorant of the war in Iraq, our new incoming president, AND the economic crisis, he got bored. He wants Utah legislature to declare it's opposition to the war on Christmas.

Obviously he's also ignorant of the First Amendment and history.

"It would encourage the use of 'Merry Christmas,'" Buttars said of the non-binding statement that is still being drafted. "I'm sick of the Christmas wars -- we're a Christian nation and ought to use the word."

Yeah, I'm sick of the "Christmas Wars" that the christians make up every single year too.

I don't know what's sadder, that it took a reporter and a lawyer to bring up the violation of the First Amendment or at how many Senators were asleep through history class. Maybe they didn't even bother to show up.

I get it, it's a resolution. It's really nothing more than a statement that "we support Merry Christmas". But it's also a statement that says "we don't recognize the Jews, Blacks, and others of our nation". You're putting Christmas ahead of Kwanzaa, Hannukkah, Yule, and those that actually do celebrate Festivus, and secular Christmas celebrators. So what, our beliefs are all secondary to yours? Once again a christian (and I mean that in the loosest possible terms) has made it abundantly clear that they will force us to face them whether we want to or not. Why? Why must you be in our faces constantly? The only problem with this thinking is that if we are forced to face you, then we have to do something about you.

This is also a government attempt to back a religion. Christians claim Christmas every year when they start this war on Christmas shit. If you're backing a religious holiday, then you're backing a religion. If you are backing Christmas to the exclusion of Kwanzaa, Hannukah, and Yule, you've tossed your hat in the Christian ring. Resolution or not, it's one that will be followed with lawsuits.

Don't even get me started on interfering with the free market and the irony of regulating businesses to say Merry Christmas while many christians condemn the same businesses for "commercializing" it.

This is getting beyond stupid. I read about a guy who was at a store and bought something and paid with his credit card. As the cashier held the credit card back to him she said, "Merry Christmas!" He says, "You too." She wouldn't relinquish her hold on the card and repeated "Merry Christmas." She thought she didn't hear him and said, "You too" again. She continued this behavior until he realized she wouldn't let go until he said "Merry Christmas" all the while glaring. He finally said it and was allowed to leave. I'd have said "oh you're not a christian either?" and reported her ass.

But the point comes to: Why are you such selfish little bastards? There's like a half dozen holidays in December and yours is ONE day. Diwali (I have no idea what that is), Kwanzaa, Christmas, Hannukah, Yule, and believe it or not, some folks DO celebrate Festivus. Hell, Hannukah lasts longer AND predated Christmas. Yule predated it too, in fact, they stuck Christmas in our Yule!

Also, Jesus actually celebrated Hannukah, you Christians are refusing to recognize the day that Jesus himself recognized! That can't bode well....

Sorry, got a little distracted.

Go victimized a christian, say "Happy Holidays" everwhere you go.

California's crackpots

I'ts been a few days since California ruled that same sex marriage is ok. The nuts have come out of the wood work like mad. If it's not christian "love" a la "kill all homos" (only the guy ones, you rarely hear diatribes against lesbians), it's how "unnatural" de gayznezz is, or it's how California has violated the will of the voters (amusingly enough, that's happened LOTS of times, but as long as it benefits them it's ok). They desperately grasp for any string that will pull the horses back. They swear in November it'll be different, or they threaten to overturn the state constitution.

Amazing, isn't it, how fast they turn on our US Constitution or their state Constitution when it doesn't do what they want?

Realize folks, if there had been a vote for interracial marriage the majority would have voted against it. If there had been a vote to allow women's rights, it would have been the majority against it. However, I now have the right to vote, marry a black man, or hell, marry a black woman. Get used to it. You keep pushing it and there will be an over turning of our Constitutions. The right to arms can be removed as fast as gays can be added. The right to freedom of religion can be removed as fast as same sex marriage added. You want to open this can of worms, go ahead. But realize, there are educated folks out there, that know that the right to bear arms is there to fight against tyranny, that freedom from religion serves both the atheist AND the christian, and that same sex marriage is a HUMAN right. You're gonna have to give up something, it seems you'd support same sex marriage because it's the least of your worries.


That and it's none of your fuckin' business to start with. I promise, I will be the first in line to vote against gay marriage if it passes and gay men show up to your house in droves to make you marry them. Somehow though, I don't think they want anything to do with your stuck up, bigoted ass. I wonder why?

A full out rant just for Eli

A few?? A few??? Phelps, Bush, Swaggert, Robertson, Falwell, Dr. Laura, Alan Keyes, Jesse Helms, Don Knickles, Trent Lott, Reggie White, The American Family Association, Paul Cameron, then you count all the christians that support them, then all the christians I'm surrounded by constantly here in the Baptist bible belt, and the fact that I was raised Christian, the in laws that swear that not only I'm going to hell but taking the hubby with me since he no longer attends church. Then let's not forget the bill so that christians can harass others and it's not a hate crime. However, let me go out with a sign that says my god will send christians to the darkest hells like they do gay people and watch them all scream persecution! You people think it's persecution if we don't put "Merry Christmas" on every store! Here's the majority of your high profile christians:

1. sex offenders
2. pedophiles
3. Phelps (does god really want him disrespecting men and women who die for our country by picketing thier funerals and disrespecting grieving families?)
4. Phelps (that man's HATRED for gays is only surpassed by the late Falwell's hatred for feminists...real christian like)
5. Spreaders of hate
6. Homophobic, which is none of my business except they picket and pick on the gay people
7. Go read Fundies say the darnedest things...read some of the hate and vitriol, in fact, read all over the internet
8. Adulterers
9. Hypocrites
10. Whining, insensitive dramatics

You say there's no proof...sure is. There's proof every time christians picket gays, most of Congress, the marriage amendment,

If I'm picking the weakest, that's because that's all we see. ALL WE SEE. Those claiming christians are being persecuted because Walmart put up "Happy Holidays", yet none of us are demanding to put you in gas chambers. Hollering persecution when YOU don't get fired for being pagan or muslim. YOU HAVE YOUR OWN FUCKIN' TV CHANNEL and you still cry about being "picked on" because we won't let you put religion up in the courthouses. Guess what, I pay my taxes too and I'm not a christian! This is my country too. While I'm happy to share it with you, I will not let you marginalize me. I haven't met just teenage christians, I've met them young and old. THE TEENAGERS WERE ACTUALLY MORE CHRISTIAN THAN THEIR BIBLE THUMPING PARENTS!!!

And yes, they do act holier than thou. It's not just me. Anytime you go around looking down on people for not choosing your way, it's holier than thou. You do it in your post to anonymous with "If you are plagued by your past actions, I can understand it. There are burdens that come with failed relationships, and the best way to cope is to turn them over to God." If that just doesn't scream condescension and superiority I don't know what does. He never said he was plagued by his past actions. In fact, quite the opposite. What made you toss that in there? What purpose did that serve except for you to deride his choices, albeit subtly, by labeling his relationship(S) as failed? Especially as he'd only mentioned one that both parties parted on good terms? Then you follow up with: "The point I want to make to you is that inserting drama that you completely invented simply for drama's sake means you no longer get to be taken seriously." Pardon me, but who made you god on that blog? There it is again, that subtly condescending, "Ok,now you're throwing a wittle fit, so you gotta go pway with the wittle kids" attitude. I've read the bible, TWICE, at no point do I recall God or Jesus saying you're supposed to talk down to your fellow man. And then I love this one: "You don't even understand why your rant against those mean judgemental fundies exposes that you are more interested in..."blah blah bullshit...You presume to know what he's thinking? You mean to tell me YOU understand his rant but he doesn't? Are you actually saying that because of your "superiority" (whether you attribute it to god or intellect) tells you what he feels and believes better than HE does? WOW. I'm an intellectual snob and an asshole and even *I* don't go around telling people I know what they are thinking better than they do.

Now, one more thing: "You want to be one of the enlightened and you desire to put fundies like me in my place."

Don't tell me what I want unless you want to hear what I want. I want your church to clean up your public image and your own fellow worshippers before picketing my gay buddies' parties. I want your church to read your bible and know it better than *I* do before you come up to me with your tracts and your flyers. I want your christians to go talk to a Jew that's been persecuted in Germany before screaming persecution, but you better hurry, I think there's only one left. I want your christians to shut up, quit whining, and live WITH the rest of the religions in our country (which means I want your religion to stay too, just SHARE). Which means no picketing Walmart for putting up "Happy Holidays" because a few other religions have holidays in the same time frame. It also means keeping YOUR religion out of public schools so that you don't interfere with my teachings, but to be fair, I will also keep MY religion out as well. But don't bitch when you get your religion in and mine follows in right behind it. It also means that when I say Happy Holidays, don't take it wrong, take it like I mean it. I WANT YOU TO HAVE A JOYFUL HOLIDAY SEASON NO MATTER WHICH ONE YOU CELEBRATE. I want christians to do what I do: Don't go bugging people about who they worship UNLESS ASKED. If you want to testify about Jesus, then LIVE LIKE HIM. I want your religion to publicly denounce those high profile folks that claim christianity while sinning as bad as the devil before you give me shit about "painting you all with the same brush". I want your worshippers to see the new pagan store go up in town and welcome the PERSON and wish them well even if you don't agree with their beliefs. In return I will give you EXACTLY the same amount of respect you give the rest of us. I want to wear MY religious symbols without worrying about, not only if my husband will lose his job, but also if he'll even be able to get another one that pays just as well without moving. I also want to wear them without being approached by christians, sneered at by christians, or hearing smart ass not so christian remarks from them. I also want to be able to have a bad day or a bad experience without someone like you coming along to tell me that it's because I don't have gawd in my life. What, do christians not have bad days or bad things happen to them? I can assure you they do. I was Christian for 12 years before I lost the faith and I was physically abused. The bad thing is what drove me from the church were the followers. As Ghandi once said, "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ." I don't have a problem with Jesus or God, I have a problem with christians. And if I understood the Bible correctly, so does God and Jesus (have a problem with christians I mean). Don't attempt to psychoanalyze me, Eli. You won't like what you find in there. I believe in letting gays marry and pagans have parades in the streets and the right to choose and atheists having "God" removed from anything the government puts out. I believe in religious freedom and the freedom from religion. It's shocking in there.

I also want world peace and an end to starvation, and I'll likely see that LONG before I ever see a christian do all of the above.

Love can keep us together (only if it's Jesus love)

What amazes me is how the "christians" can read the preachings of a man who counseled love in everything we do, and yet use it to spread so much hate and controversy. Liberty Counsel (the name an indication of heavy irony in itself) has begun it's annual hate campaign, during what is supposed to be a holiday of showing love to your fellow man. Did I call it a hate campaign? Oh yes I did.

And why not? They are acting like 4 year olds who aren't getting their way on the playground. From one of their sample ads "In essence, we will be a “Friend” to those entities which allow for the constitutionally protected right of expression but will be a “Foe” of those which attempt to
suppress religious liberty." In other words, if you don't play my way, I won't be your friend no more. Not to mention they're liars based on that statement alone.

Again, no one is "stealing" Christmas. (Don't even get me into where you stole it from to start with guys). No one is looking to rename it or remove it altogether (not like you did the original pagan celebrations). In fact, we all just celebrate in our own way...but you can't stand that can you? Let me explain this so your small minds can comprehend:

1. Happy Holidays is a saying that includes ALL holidays of the season. Yes, yours too. It's not taking away YOUR right to say Merry Christmas. If it helps, look on it as a way to remember Jesus and love your fellow man, regardless of his religious affiliation. "You're a different religion, but I wish for you to be happy at this time of year anyhow. I wish to show that I love you, as Jesus taught, because Christianity rocks that way." The funny thing is this is supposedly Jesus' birthday. Would you dream of attending a real person's birthday party and being rude to everyone who showed up? Yet you do it on Jesus' birthday..what an asshole.

2. Including OTHER holidays that are celebrated at the exact same time is not because we don't like YOU. It's because we like to make our fellow man happy and comfortable. I don't know if you noticed, but this is America. We are diverse. That means we have lots of different people. We have white folks, black folks, brown folks, "Christian" folks, Jewish folks, Pagan folks...take my word, many different people. All these people have the right to be recognized for ALL that they are, which includes their religion. They should all feel comfortable to be in our country (especially since most were BORN here) and live their lives as they wish without harming others. I'm sorry, but your campaign to emphasize your religion over others harms others. You show your children, every Christmas, that it's more important who you worship than being a good person. Those kids go out and do the same thing to the other kids in their class. What a shining example of the love Jesus preached.

a. When schools decide not to sing "Christian" songs during the play, that doesn't mean they are out to crucify "Christians" after the play. It means that thanks to your psychotic meanderings they are trying really hard to follow the Constitution AND not cause a scene that ruins the holiday because you guys are real assholes. See, to show a welcome to all religions then that means they gotta sing that Jewish song, Kwanza song, Chrisitan song, Pagan song. You people will show your true agenda (which is NOT to love your fellow man) by getting all pissy about the Hanukkah songs, Kwanza songs, and Yule songs. So they either have to drop ALL religious songs or sing them all. You've made them a nice catch-22 there. Dicks.

b. This also applies to displays of religious natures. See, it's all or nothing. Once again, you make sure they have no idea which way is right by hating whatever they do either way and making a big stink over it.

3. You are so in this war alone. It's funny, but every fuckin' year it's the "CHRISTIANS" who start the shit. Some innocent person goes off to the wrong activist and says "Happy Holidays" with all the good intentions of the world and YOU people go off. You cause resentment (I swear you guys' AQ is higher than anyone else's on the planet, that's Annoyance Quotient for you idiots out there), you cause ill will, and then get mad at US...that's balls for you. If I KNOW you're a "Christian" and every day do my damnedest to convert you, eventually you're going to start getting annoyed with me. Maybe even pissed off, then you might start pushing your religion just to get my goat. That's what you people do every fuckin' year. Newsflash: You're right, we DO wish you'd go away...just so you'll shut up and leave us the fuck alone. But we didn't until you started this shit. I don't like most of you people, you wouldn't know Jesus teachings if he came down here and gave you the Apple, but I never wished you gone until you started pushing harder and harder. Now I do wish you'd go away, but only for the peace factor. You can stay if you'll calm down and chill the fuck out. You can tell me Merry Christmas and I'll say Happy Holidays and we'll smile and wish each other well and MOVE THE FUCK ON.

4. Can you only feel love if you scream about Jesus? What is this thing you got here where no one can be thankful of what they have, appreciative of spending time with their family, basking in the glow of their loved ones UNLESS they have the Jesus sticker? Do you really think that NO other religion, or even no other human being, can feel those things except you? You had a nice idea going on: A holiday where you spend time with your family and show appreciation and bask in their love. We liked that idea...we used it. Ok, so for us it's not about the Jesus. But it seems we're doing what Jesus said, and apparently that's the only thing the man asked for for his birthday. At least WE are giving the man his wish...you're just too busy being a "christian" instead of acting like one. Damn near every one of you is nothing but a Sunday "christian" anyhow. You act all nice in church, but I see you on the internet. The only people carrying around as much hate and intolerance and childishness is Al Quaida. You people need some Jesus therapy, and I know just the perfect Christian to do it. Shame is, he's too Christian to want to be around you folks. It would sadden him, he'd try I know, but he'd be so ashamed of you....

Look, just enjoy the fuckin' holiday alright. Try a bit of that Jesus love he left behind and you've been thumbing your nose at. As Bill and Ted said:

Be excellent to each other. Party on, dudes.

As I said, teaching kids religion should be criminal

Religion and Child Abuse

You guys should read this, I've provided some excerpts. Realize this is RELIGION and child abuse, not Christianity and child abuse...but hey, Christianity is mentioned as well.

Such abuse begins with the involuntary involvement of children in religious practices from the time they are born. All religions, through ritual, preaching, and religious texts, seek to bring children into day-to-day religious practice. This gives holy books and scriptures, as well as those who teach them, an early grip on the developing minds of young people, leaving an indelible impression on them. In many cases, most notably in the Catholic Church, this forced and prolonged exposure of children to religious institutions has also been a key factor in the physical, mental, and sexual abuse of children by religious leaders.

This early grip is so strong that very few people, once grown, ever get an opportunity to change their minds, despite being exposed to science and rational thinking, or even other religious systems. Religious beliefs thrive by imposing themselves upon impressionable minds and gaining their blind adherence to certain dogmatic practices.

.........

There is a global unwillingness to acknowledge that all religions use their educational institutions and programs, be they Sunday schools, madrassas, or Jewish or Hindu temples to indoctrinate children. Sometimes, this is in the guise of conveying good moral values, but, while it may be much more rigid and overt in, say, a madrassa, it is no less influential on young minds in a Christian Sunday school.

Ultimately, all such programs try to instill a belief in the superiority of one religion and inculcate an unquestioning faith in that system.

............

ROFLMFAO

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! *Jalestra falls on the floor rolling, almost pissing her pants*

How many times have I said to just give the Christians what they wanted under the laws of our country? How many? And a place did it, and the Christians got back right what they asked for! TWICE!!! There's a link on the blog title too, don't miss it..it's where I got most of my info!

A group of Pagans in Albemarle County, Va., was recently given permission to advertise their multi-cultural holiday program to public school children – and they have the Rev. Jerry Falwell to thank for it.

The dispute started last summer when Gabriel and Joshua Rakoski, twins who attend Hollymead Elementary School, sought permission to distribute fliers about their church’s Vacation Bible School to their peers via “backpack mail.” Many public schools use special folders placed in student backpacks to distribute notices about schools events and sometimes extra-curricular activities to parents.

School officials originally denied the request from the twins’ father, Ray Rakoski, citing a school policy barring “distribution of literature that is for partisan, sectarian, religious or political purposes.”

A Charlottesville weekly newspaper, The Hook, reports that Rakoski “sicced the Liberty Counsel on the county,” and the policy was soon revised to allow religious groups to use the backpack mail system. Liberty Counsel is a Religious Right legal group founded by Mathew Staver and now affiliated with Falwell.

Some local Pagans who attend Thomas Jefferson Memorial Church, a Unitarian-Universalist congregation in Charlottesville, decided to take advantage of the new forum as well. They created a one-page flier advertising a Dec. 9 event celebrating the December holidays with a Pagan twist and used the backpack system to invite the entire school community. (There's more if you click the link)

So that was the first incident..then, as you gather from the link in the title, it happened again:

So, the Religious Right got want they wanted from the federal courts (the same federal courts they accuse of “kicking God out of the public schools”) and now they’re hopping mad…again.

World Net Daily reports that the Albemarle School District is under attack by a Religious Right group for sending students home with flyers for Camp Quest, an overnight summer camp for young atheists, agnostics and freethinkers.

This time, however, the problem has been exacerbated by a handful of teachers who have refused to send the flyers home. The group assailing Albemarle School District, Rick Scarborough’s Vision America, says “it’s outrageous to force teachers to distribute these flyers.” He’s urging members to contact the district to protest its “establishment of disbelief.”

An anonymous spokesman for the rebelling teachers told World Net Daily some teachers refused to hand out the Camp Quest flyer because they were “disgusted” and were concerned parents would think the school was endorsing the camp. Even though there is a disclaimer distancing the school from all extra-curricular information sent home, “it’s still coming from me and my classroom,” he said.

Mr. Anonymous is partly right. Anything that comes home from a public school, no matter how strong the disclaimer is, may be perceived as having the school’s stamp of approval. But that’s water under the bridge. Religious Right activists, through the 4th Circuit ruling that they sought, have forced public schools to allow their religious messages in the “backpack mail” system

.

Now that they have opened the forum, they can’t close it to perspectives they don’t like. Although these religious conservatives demand people listen to them, they appear unwilling to listen to others.

I can only close with a comment from the blog:

Well, Cathy and Jeff, it’s a new day. Your pals Falwell and Staver have opened up this forum, and now everyone gets to use it. Isn’t that what you wanted all along – freedom of religion? That freedom means all religions – even ones you don’t happen to like.

Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian

10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.

7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.

4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."

3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.

2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian.

-----stolen from a craigslist thing

One less fundie nutjob

One week before his death, Falwell told CNN's Christiane Amanpour he needed at least 20 more years to accomplish his vision for Liberty University.

Apparently god answered his prayer with a big resounding NO.

Look don't get pissed just because I had the balls to say it "Ding dong the witch is dead". What part of "I'm an asshole" did you not understand? Now, if only god will answer Pat Robertson's prayers with a big resounding NO as well. I never wished the man dead...but I'm not above taking pleasure in it. I know, I'm so mean, but hey, just because someone died, it doesn't make him a good person. And Falwell has spent his whole life making sure you knew, no matter what claims toward following a loving Jesus he made, he was NOT a good person. Let's remember him as he was:

"AIDS is the wrath of a just God against homosexuals."

"I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America," he said. "I point the finger in their face and say 'You helped this happen.' "

If you're not a born-again Christian, you're a failure as a human being.

God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to give us probably what we deserve.

AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals.

I listen to feminists and all these radical gals - most of them are failures. They've blown it. Some of them have been married, but they married some Casper Milquetoast who asked permission to go to the bathroom. These women just need a man in the house. That's all they need. Most of the feminists need a man to tell them what time of day it is and to lead them home. And they blew it and they're mad at all men. Feminists hate men. They're sexist. They hate men - that's their problem.

"Someone must not be afraid to say, 'moral perversion is wrong.' If we do not act now, homosexuals will 'own' America!...If you and I do not speak up now, this homosexual steamroller will literally crush all decent men, women, and children who get in its way...and our nation will pay a terrible price!"

Yeah, I'm not the asshole for noticing he was one too...just for pointing it out. Goodbye to one of the great hatemongers of the 20th and 21st century.

And before some of you start in about how hate shouldn't follow hate or some other shit, get over it.
1. Don't throw shit if you aren't ready to have it thrown back. Falwell has thrown more than his fair share of shit, I'm not saying anything I hadn't already said when he was alive. I'm just reminding people before they get off in "well he's dead now, let's be nice" bullshit. I don't see anyone saying that about Hitler.

2. I. Don't. Care. One of these days you'll realize I don't say this shit to be cool...I say it because I. Don't. Care. The neat thing about not caring is that I can say whatever I want without worrying about whose feelings it hurts.

3. Don't give me shit about enjoying the loss of an asshole, ESPECIALLY if you enjoyed the loss of Saddam Hussein...

Ron Luce

Just go read the article about he and his church in the newest issue of Rolling Stone. I supposed I could cover his idiocy point by point, but I"m not sure where exactly to start. However, if you have half a brain you should be able to read the article and see why I think it should be criminal to teach children religon....ANY religion. I don't care if you're a peaceful Buddha...NO religion, then we can't fall so easily into this type of brainwashing. And for you Christian folk, you know where god said Beware false prophets? I'm pretty certain this is the guy he had in mind...or one very like him...of course for law suit purposes I want you to be sure this is just MY opinion. And in my opinion, I'm offended on behalf of Christians. The real ones, you know Jesus said "Love thy neighbor". The Jesus who wanted peace? Yeah, that guy.

We're talking about a guy who says that his calls for battle "are not a metaphor". And for those of you saying "Rolling Stone had an agenda", this isn't the first time, or the only place I've seen the type of crap Luce spews. I don't need RS for that, quite frankly, I just have to look at the website and know quite enough. Probably because I'm an adult and have an IQ over 50, not blinded by religion. And that's not necessarily to say religion is blinding, but when you leave no room in your head for people of other faith, it just makes it easier to suck you in. You're too busy reading about God to read about the brainwashing techniques used to draw you away from him. And justify it with well, Satan's work. So let's go takea look at the website:

"A stealthy enemy has infiltrated our country and is preying upon the hearts and minds of 33 million American teens. Corporations, media conglomerates, and purveyors of popular culture have spent billions to seduce and enslave our youth. So far, the enemy is winning." --So here's our nebulous enemy. And it includes the whole world! You can't get a good fear induced hysteria without the fear part. And it's cool leaving the enemy pretty vague, because then you can steer your screeching mob to whatever target is pissing you off at the moment. I got a newsflash for you all, most of us could really give a shit who you worship...we don't want to take your wittle god away. If there is any animosity, well, ti's because you're trying to take OURS away. See, if you make America Christian, what's going to happen to those of us that just want to worship our version of god? Yeah, see, THEN we might get mad. But if you just hush up and worship YOUR god, we will hush up and worship ours and all will be well. Why is it only Christians have a problem living beside other faiths in America? Oops, getting sidetracked..moving on.

HUGE EVENTS--It's time to stir up the sheep...tribal drum..er speaker beats, loud music, a building filled with so many you can barely move....it makes you feel closer to GOD! No it doesn't, there's always a huge rush in such a situation. Ask any atheist that has been to a rock concert...yours is just more extreme because you have some idiot stepping in every so often to target your feelings for you. See, we don't have that, frankly because we don't need someone to rile us up for our religion. 1. We do not need to be targetted so we can fill our religion, we don't need to have a big group to be a part of to know our religion is real. We can be totally alone and still feel that our religion is worthwhile. 2. We also do not need a huge group of people to behave just like us so we aren't tempted. We tend to have minds of our own and accept our own blame if we believe we have "sinned". We do not need to blame it on some anti-god.

Testimonials--Ah yes, we need to let you know that it works, even though it never works for you right now, we have some fake stories here that will show you this really works. If it doesn't work for you the fault is in you, not our beliefs. See, this is a nice "trust me" and self flagellation all rolled into one. You are all just dirty sinners, worthless, but that's ok, because god loves you. You are unacceptable, but we accept you anyway. Umm..this is a big fat duh..give the outcasts a place to be accepted, a WAY to be accepted, and most will run after it and buy up all the tinfoil hats. Appealing to the most basic fear in human beings, that noone really accepts us. And when you harass others to come join your crusade, well, you can feel secure as all your intelligent friends abandon you, that its THEM, because you have just tons of friends in brainwash central!

Now, there's one more, but it can't be just some one word thing..no, this is most interesting. If you have a war that includes EVERYTHING around you, then nothing can be trusted. And noone can be trusted, except those in your little group...everyone else is out to tempt you. So you get no exposure to new ideas. Media is against you, your parents, your schoolbooks. All out to "get you". The parent thing is very odd (especially since BattleCry appears to encourage youth to go around parents if necessary) considering one of God's top commandments (#5) says Honour thy mother and thy father. But of course, you're only parent is Father-God...I knewthere was a reason you pray like that.... Anyhow, no exposure to new ideas means noone to disagree with your figurehead. Then he doesn't have to worry about you wising up and taking your money back to the Gap, where he won't get his cut. Not to mention, he gets to keep you in the fold, where you belong, worshipping him.

Y'know, I notice a lot of military language in BattleCry..perhaps a subtle (ok, not so subtle to those of us not brainwashed and with an IQ over 50) way of getting a military mindset. BTW, I watched that commercial with the kids standing around holding signs with their little nuggets of "information" on them. I'd like to know what is with the chick holding "1/3 has been raped"....is that insinuating that it's because you weren't falling down to pray? Because I got a fuckin' newsflash for you: It happens whether you pray or not. ANd it has NOTHING to do with god. I've known a VERY religious, modestly dressed (yes Christian) woman who was raped twice. Does that mean she didn't fuckin' pray hard enough? Fuckin' sickos. And I'm not sure what that "53% of us believed Jesus sinned" means. The only possible thing I can think of is his alleged marriage to Mary Magdalene believed in some circles..and if he was MARRIED to her, then they don't believe he sinned. And "65% of us say there is no way to know which religion is TRUE"..well, newsflash, unless god painted it in neon in the clouds, that's a true statement. We don't. There is NO modern day proof of ANY religion. There is NO scientific proof that one religion has it right.

So yes, I'm watching my children closely. It's bad enough you get the right to subject my child to abuse whenever you like...but if they are going to follow the Christian religion, they are going to do it by Jesus. I'll make damn sure of it.

And if you feel the need to post something hateful, you Christians that so enjoy doing that, please do. I need not only another reason not to become one, but I just LOVE seeing you abandon Jesus and show what you truly are.

Spring Bunny

Yeah, 5 years and NOW someone's crying...

What people need to understand is the words connotate *christian* beliefs...of which not all Americans share. To me it's not PC, it's establishing a new mindset of what our country is. All the time christians use justification for trying to push yet MORE religious doctrine through our legislature (gays can't marry?) with well, we ARE a christian nation. Guess what, we're not, and there's one way to make sure you start thinking of us as a nation of PEOPLE and not a nation of CHRISTIANS...remove the christian parts of anything governmently backed.

If it REALLY doesn't matter if it's an Easter bunny or a Spring bunny because it no longer is treated religiously by the public, then why does it matter if they change the name? I'm not offended by the word Easter, but I AM offended that the christians think it's ok to promote Easter publicly and scream at anyone, ANYONE, else that has the gall to try to have their faith in public, let alone practice it there. http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/mass4.htm And while some of the things done may have been a bit off...I believe these statements are VERY telling:

Rev. Paula P. Durrant of the Congregational Christian Church of Somerset declared that it is "a sign of sad times" when opinions of religious leaders are not promptly acknowledged by politicians.

According to the Herald News, signatories of the letter warned: "In our region there are a variety of groups, witches, Devil Worshippers and representatives of many other religious beliefs. We fear that the creche and the menorah would be compromised even more should other groups seek to have their symbols included."

If your religious beliefs are compromised over something like that, then hey, your faith must be on pretty shaky fuckin' ground.

WWJD

I can say what Jesus wouldn't do: deny anyone medical care due to someone's appearance. But this good doctor decides he has some kind of right to judge others and to hide behind Jesus' robes when he does it. Dr. Gary Merrill, not so Christian to deny treatment to anyone, let alone a child. I suppose one can refuse to treat gays because "AIDS is God's punishment". Or maybe refuse to treat blacks, how about we refuse to treat old people, I mean shit, their old, they won't live too much longer anyway.

The "good" doctor has set his standards for treatment, and he decides if you are "worthy" of his precious time.

Let me say something here: If you cannot reconcile your religion and your job, get a new job. One would think being a doctor would be the ultimate way of practicing Christianity, I mean, you get to HELP people, save lives. Apparently at least ONE idiot has found a way they can't work together. It's really easy, if your job puts you in a position to do things you don't agree with, GET A NEW JOB! Mr. Merrill, and yes, I leave off Dr. on purpose because you are not a real doctor since you can't seem to follow basic human decency, Mr Merrill who made you God? What a stunning example of Christianity! Using your religion to judge others and deny them their basic human dignity!

Yeah, makes me want to go out and make a new Christian friend! Jesus was known for treating the undesirables...one would think that if AMA didn't hold him to that standard, Jesus would.

However, let me point something out. He IS hiding behind Jesus' robes...He has up in his office "Standards of Dress" apply. I don't recall Jesus having a dress code...perhaps I'm wrong. It's been a lot of years since I read the bible, but I'm pretty certain he didn't. What this sounds like is a class issue. You're obviously poor and I don't want my rich patients to be forced to look at you.

Regardless of which, you're a sorry ass human being...and like most other Christians who like the limelight, you're a sorry ass Christian.

Please, tell the good doctor what you think...maybe a few hundred Christians can convince him that Jesus wasn't a dickhead.


Christian Medical Services 2920 F St # C6, Bakersfield, CA(661) 324-8990

Jesus was a hippie

Hippies rebelled against established institutions, criticized middle class values, opposed the Vietnam War. Hippies opposed "political and social orthodoxy", choosing a "gentle and nondoctrinaire" politics that favored "peace, love, and personal freedom.". They perceived the dominant culture as a corrupt, monolithic entity that exercised undue power over their lives, calling this culture "The Establishment," "Big Brother," or "The Man."

I'm so tired of Christians. "You dayumned libruls..." Guess what, Jesus (if he existed) would be a "librul". He loved everyone, fought the man, and believed in peace. He opposed war and the establishment. He had long hair and would have lived in a commune(with his disciples, if it wasn't for that whole traveling thing). And y'know the man could have thrown a party with that whole water into wine thing.

But he still would not have voted for Hillary Clinton.

Christian Persectuion aka ME ME ME

What a bunch of wienies. Me me me, this is CHRISTIAN DISCRIMINATION, this is against CHRISTIANS. Well I have a couple of questions:

1. How does NO RELIGIOUS PARAPHANELIA target ONLY christians? Last I heard LOTS of religions include little emblems that can be turned into jewelry. You don't have the monopoly on religious jewelry.

2. NO RELIGION IN SCHOOLS...noone said no CHRISTIAN religion, they said NO RELIGION. That doesn't mean just Christians, that means, no Wiccan religion in school, no Pagan religion in school, no Muslim religion in schools...

You're "War on Christianity" is nothing more than enforcing rules and not only against "christians", but against EVERYONE.

I love this list of the "persecution" suffered by christianity (btw, christians, go talk to a Jew with a number tattooed on their arm they didn't ask for, then you might have an inkling what persectution is). Here'st he list:

The federal government abridges the free exercise of religion in America by:
Regulating churches and other religious organizations through its tax laws.
Limiting religious liberty in the area of public and private education.
Forbidding non-denominational prayer in public schools and at educational ceremonies.
Excluding the Bible from school classrooms and from other school property.
Refusing to permit the religious displays on public property, such as Christmas and Chanukah.
The City council in Oceanside, CA banned public prayers that begin or end with the phrase "in the name of Christ."

Ok ok, let me say first of all, this is all BS. This is expected of EVERY religion, not just "christians". Selfish little bastards, all they want is THEIR religion up, not anyone elses. Notice their gripe is with the state backing a religion, that the state is not backing THEIRS. I don't see them fighting to have Muslim precepts posted beside the 10 Commandments (commandments the most vocal of the "christian" religion can't even seem to follow), they also aren't allowing Wiccan or Pagan precepts up. No no, JUST the 10 Commandments. Somehow though, the word persecution doesn't seem to apply, I mean, I don't see "nailing us up on crosses" on the list, nor "hot irons applied to the feet", nothing like "fired because I was christian" or "arrested because I was christian" nor do I see "run out of town for being christian" or "tried to run me out of town for being christian'. However I can sure find signs of christians persecuting others!

30 Muslim workers fired for praying on job at Dell

http://tennessean.com/local/archives/05/03/66733769.shtml?Element_ID=66733769

Of course, a prayer of 5 minutes is unflexible for an employer, but christians refusing to work on Sundays is not?


Muslim Pilot Fired Due to Religion and Appearance, EEOC Says In Post- 9/11 Backlash Discrimination Suit

http://www.eeoc.gov/press/7-17-03a.html

"Woman says firm fired her for being Wiccan"

http://wwrn.org/article.php?idd=22062&sec=39&con=4

We could go on and on. However, you do see cases of christians fired, yes, and it seems it's always about following rules. Math teacher fired for preaching in class...yes, perhaps because he's a MATH teacher at a PUBLIC school. Woman fired for wearing her cross, yes perhaps because the policy there was NO RELIGIOUS SYMBOLS. See the trick of the eye there? WOMAN FIRED FOR WEARING CROSS, but only later is it pointed out that umm..NO religious symbols were allowed. They weren't firing her for the cross, they fired her for BREAKING THE RULES. I have never heard of an instance of an employer being accused of finding out Bob is a christian and firing him over it. But you hear many cases of finding out that Jill was Pagan, Tom was Muslim....ad nauseum.

What irritates me is not that christians want their rights, it's that convenient hearing thing they got. NO GOVERNMENT BACKED religion they actually seem to hear NO GOVERNMENT BACKED RELIGION except for Christians. NO RELIGIOUS SYMBOLS seems to translate as NO RELIGIOUS SYMBOLS except for Christianity. Wrong, no means no, none means none. And danged if these idiots don't get the job and proceed to disobey and then bitch about it. "*sputters* Well surely they don't mean me!" Yes! You TOO!

To me it's an all or nothing deal here: Either all religion in school or none. You post the 10 Commandments there will have to be equal time AND space for all other religions. You want the Bible in Class, then you must have all other religious books. You want Bible class, you better all religious classes. Or you take it all out. Quite frankly, if you stop and think of how much education these kids will miss just so you can be sure they will hear the Bible and the rest of us be sure all religions get equal time and treatment, you're better off taking it all out. Not to mention somehow I think the christians might rethink their view when we get past Bible Class. In fact, I would make it mandatory that Bible Class appear later than other religions at a random spot so parents can't force our kids to attend Bible class and then yank their kids out so they won't hear "Satan's Wild Ride" (Satanism IS a religion y'know).

We should do that, let's give the christians what they want under the law of our nation. Equal time with the rest of the world religions, in fact, I ask that it's mandatory that all students must attend or cannot graduate....yeah, the christians might get what they want, but boy will they hate it...and they might know how the rest of us feel...